PPL need ppc sign-off

[Ken56]

There are 2 rated pilots in SE Virginia looking for a Sign off for our ordered (not yet received) single place AFU USA-1b. It will be N-Numbered (DAR set up). We will be picking it up in Athens, TX on or before 11-20-07. Going to Tulsa for the A/W inspection and then bringing it home in Hampton Roads. We don't want to dent it or ourselves trying to self teach, so we need a CFI/SP/PPC. Anyone close to us able to help. As I understand the regs a BFI will not do even before 1-31-07. Am I reading this correctly?


Thanks,

Ken Mahoney
N723JH (soon)

[AirSportAdventures]

There are 2 rated pilots in SE Virginia looking for a Sign off for our ordered (not yet received) single place AFU USA-1b. It will be N-Numbered (DAR set up). We will be picking it up in Athens, TX on or before 11-20-07. Going to Tulsa for the A/W inspection and then bringing it home in Hampton Roads. We don't want to dent it or ourselves trying to self teach, so we need a CFI/SP/PPC. Anyone close to us able to help. As I understand the regs a BFI will not do even before 1-31-07. Am I reading this correctly?


Thanks,

Ken Mahoney
N723JH (soon)

Ken

I'm in Central Florida and out of your way, but I've trained a number of pilots flying single place AFU machines. If you mean you're a Private Pilot and you have a current medical and BFR, any CFI can give you a proficiency check flight. A BFI can't fly or train students in N numbered aircraft.

[Ken56]

Michael,

We are both pilots already. I have my PPL SEL and Joel is COM MEL/SES. I have 100+hrs in G/A fixed wing and he has 300+. I do not think we need to get any more licences, just logbook endorsements. Am I correct? I sure hope so.our medicals have expired and never denied etc.

Tks,

Ken

[AirSportAdventures]

Michael,

We are both pilots already. I have my PPL SEL and Joel is COM MEL/SES. I have 100+hrs in G/A fixed wing and he has 300+. I do not think we need to get any more licences, just logbook endorsements. Am I correct? I sure hope so.our medicals have expired and never denied etc.

Tks,

Ken

Ken

You both have a higher certificate than a Sport Pilot so you're correct, all you need is a log book endorsement. However, to get that endorsement you'll need to learn how to fly a PPC. Here are your options as a Private Pilot.

1. FULL SPORT PILOT PRIVIEGES: Take dual instruction in a two-place PPC to learn how to fly. There is no minimum hours required, just demonstrate proficiency. After your CFI signs your 8710-11, you'll schedule and take a proficiency exam with a DPE in a two-place PPC. You will be given a log book endorsement for one or two place PPCs with no restrictions, except night flight, flight above 10,000 feet and within the operating limitations of your aircraft

2. SINGLE PLACE PPC ONLY: Take dual instruction with a CFI in a two-place PPC. After your CFI signs your 8710-11, you'll schedule and take a proficiency exam with a DPE in YOUR SINGLE PLACE AFU. Your log book endorsement will have a single seat only restriction.

Even though you will be flying a single seat PPC you'll need training in a two-seat PPC since yours will be N numbered. Either way, you'll receive a log book endorcement that will give you powered parachute privileges, under your Private Pilot Certificate. You will need to decide which privileges you want, single or dual.

[Ken56]

I was under the impression that the DPE was not required, just a CFI sign-off for single or duel. Now to instruct would be different. 1 CFI to train and prep and a 2nd CFI to sign off for CFI-SP. (along with FOI and a written). It looks like I have to dig into the FAR's a bit. So much is different from the 70's and 80's when I was getting my PPL. At any rate, thank you much for your input. I presume you have a 2 place to train in? At what rate and what is the average hours needed. I have my BFR (C-152). Joel does not yet. Would the endorsement for PPC also be a BFR sign-off, I think so.

Thanks again,

Ken

[Ken56]

See how I dated myself CFRs not FARs..


duh


Ken

[AirSportAdventures]

Ken

You're right, you don't need a DPE since you're a Private Pilot seeking powered parachute privieges. Thanks for bringing this to my attention. When you cut and paste you need to proof read! You need 1 CFI to train and sign the 8710-11 and another CFI to perform the proficiency exam. However, if you take your proficiency exam in your SINGLE PLACE PPC, only a DPE can administer the test. I have access to a two-place machine for training. The DPE I use in Florida is on your way back to Virginia. He owns a flight park and has a PPC for your practical exam if you want to have two-place privileges. I trained a Private Pilot in the spring and he was ready for the check ride at about 6 1/2 hours of dual (and passed). You can find my instructional rates at my web site posted below. I also give training discounts when I train two or more pilots.

Although, I would like your business, there are closer CFIs and DPEs between Texas and Virginia. This would cut your travel cost and time. There is a CFI in the Atlanta area. Here is his introduction post. http://www.ppcflyingforums.org/forums/showpost.php?p=11751&postcount=1 Of course weather may be a factor by the time you get your machine and Florida may be a better training location depending on 'ol man winter. Nevertheless, you do have other CFI, DPE options.

[Ken56]

Michael,

I think central Florida is a bit far for us to travel. I think we can find one in NC or Va to help us get legal. Thanks for all the info and see you at Sebring.

Ken

[Robert]

Ken,
I am hangered and fly out of both Norfolk International Airport and Suffolk Executive Airport. I have been flying PPC's for 4.5 years. I mostly fly a Powrachute 912, N-numbered SLSA with all Garmin panel mounted electronics. Integrated moving map GPS with VHF radios, comm panel with ILS marker beacons, mode C transponder, ELT, Nebulus flotation system and most importantly XM satellite music radio. I have a Comm ticket with SP and both endorsements. I passed my written SP CFI a few weeks ago but will not punch that ticket until Jan. I have NO experience with your particular make and model, if I can help you guys in any way, let me know. Welcome to the Tidewater PPC neighborhood.

Robert

[Ken56]

Robert,

are you the one who went down in Suffolk? If so, I hope you are o.k. or healing well. If you are not going to "punch" your ticket til Jan then we would have to let our plane sit there for 2 months. We are not ready to do that. Thank you for your input but we will keep looking.


Ken

[AirSportAdventures]

Ken,
<snip> I passed my written SP CFI a few weeks ago but will not punch that ticket until Jan. <snip>

Robert

Robert

Our sport needs more instructors and from time to time I get inquires for instruction in your area through my web site. If you send me a private/public message with your phone number, I'll add you to my instructor list for referrals when you get your CFI.

[Robert]

Hello Ken,
Yes, I crashed on 28.July. I was en-route flying to Tangier Island taking off from Suffolk Airport. I was almost maxed out on my weight at 1096 pounds (carrying 77 gallons of Avgas for the 186 km round trip) and I was flying a 390 Skybolt. I was only 9 minutes into my flight and over downtown Suffolk when all of a sudden all of my engine oil went out of the engine and approximately 19 seconds later the engine completely seized. With the combination of the weight and high performance chute I went down at 950 feet per minute with a forward ground speed of 63 knots. I lined up on a road in-between 2 buildings that was at that time devoid of people and as I was passing through 300 feet 3 people and a black and white dog came out from the right side and stopped in the middle of the road and simply looked at me. If I kept up that approach and ended up hitting them I would have killed them so I turned 20 degrees to my left and I purposelessly flew myself into a tree as there was nowhere else to land.

I ended up breaking my back in two places and otherwise I am "A-Ok". I should be up flying again NLT January / February 2008. I have been conducting ground training and just soloed a person with just the radio two weeks ago (Part 103). This person had been flying with me quite a bit prior to the accident so I did not feel all that anxious finishing up his training in that fashion however, I would not recommend that style of training as a normal course of action.

The cause of the accident was that all of the oil exited at the oil filter / area. I had just had my engine serviced locally and in Florida and both the FAA and NTSB said that either the oil filter was faulty or the installation of the oil filter was performed incorrectly. Two weeks after my accident Rotax has put out 4 service bulletins regarding the oil area. It is still under investigation by the NTSB to determine which one was at fault.

[Copelandiii]

hope your doing well. i will need to get a cfi and a dpe sign off. i have the student cert and can fly on that till mar 09 but would like to get signed off next year. i did get my airworthniess cert the other week. i have a afu coyote.. hopefull you can help me out next year...
Copeland

[AirSportAdventures]

hope your doing well. i will need to get a cfi and a dpe sign off. i have the student cert and can fly on that till mar 09 but would like to get signed off next year. i did get my airworthniess cert the other week. i have a afu coyote.. hopefull you can help me out next year...
Copeland

Copeland

Where do you live or where will you be next year when you're ready to train.

[Boback]

hope your doing well. i will need to get a cfi and a dpe sign off. i have the student cert and can fly on that till mar 09 but would like to get signed off next year. i did get my airworthniess cert the other week. i have a afu coyote.. hopefull you can help me out next year...
Copeland

Your student pilot certificate does not allow you to fly. You must be signed off by a CFI to be able to fly solo, and that signoff must be done every 90 days.

[ByrdMan]

Does the PPL endorsement allow a Private Pilot to fly a properly equipped (approved position lights) PPC at night?

Joel

[Boback]

Does the PPL endorsement allow a Private Pilot to fly a properly equipped (approved position lights) PPC at night?

Joel

Depends. If the PPL endorsement is for Sport Pilot, then no. If you have a Private Pilot rating with PPL then yes.

From the nature of your questions I would guess that you have your student pilot certificate, no CFI endorsements for solo, and you have not taken your sport pilot knowledge test yet. Is that correct? Is not, tell us where you are and some of us can advise what you need to do next.

[mignazito]

I beg to differ. If the PPL has a current medical certificate and a PPC endorsement, he can fly a properly equipped PPC at night. Logic: he is excercising PPL priviledges when flying at night which require the medical certificate. With no mecial he is excercising Sport Pilot priviledges with his PPL and can do so with only a valid drivers license. Of course he must also have night training, experience and/or endorsements as well as recent experience if carrying a passenger. e.g. If his PPL is limited to daytime flying only, he cannot fly the PPC at night. Though rare there are such limitations.

Furthermore, last I heard there was only one SPE-PPC in the USA who can grant the new PPL in a PPC. That was some time ago and might have changed.

This is hard to trace in the FARs, but the table in the 2007 FAR/AIM shows it.

Marty

[Boback]

I beg to differ. If the PPL has a current medical certificate and a PPC endorsement, he can fly a properly equipped PPC at night. Logic: he is excercising PPL priviledges when flying at night which require the medical certificate. With no mecial he is excercising Sport Pilot priviledges with his PPL and can do so with only a valid drivers license. Of course he must also have night training, experience and/or endorsements as well as recent experience if carrying a passenger. e.g. If his PPL is limited to daytime flying only, he cannot fly the PPC at night. Though rare there are such limitations.

Furthermore, last I heard there was only one SPE-PPC in the USA who can grant the new PPL in a PPC. That was some time ago and might have changed.

This is hard to trace in the FARs, but the table in the 2007 FAR/AIM shows it.

Marty

I see my confusion here. Some places on the internet PPL means "Private Pilot Land" and others mean "Powered Parachute Land". If he has his Private Pilot Rating (current, which means includes a current medical) with a Powered Parachute category/class, then he can fly his PPC at night. Regardless of the official definition of PPL, I have found enough confusion there whereas I usually always spell it out.

I have heard people say that if they have a Private Pilot rating in other than PPC and a Sport Pilot endorsement for PPC, they can fly at night in a PPC equipment with lights at night, as long as they have a medical. This I know is wrong.

[mignazito]

How do you know it is wrong? Point me to chapter and verse because I have a different understand of this. I'll hunt up my chapter and verse later this evening since I have to run right now.

The PPL abbeviation is confusing. Specifically I meant Private Pilot with whatever category and class one holds.

Marty

[Boback]

How do you know it is wrong? Point me to chapter and verse because I have a different understand of this. I'll hunt up my chapter and verse later this evening since I have to run right now.

The PPL abbeviation is confusing. Specifically I meant Private Pilot with whatever category and class one holds.

Marty

Yes. PPL is confusing. Several people I have discussed this with have a Private Pilot Single Engine Land license but a Sport Pilot PPC endorsement. There are those that have said those that have the above (like me), and their PPC is properly equipment at night (mine is not, yet), then they can exercise Private Pilot privileges in the PPC without getting a Private Pilot PPC endorsement. I know this last statement to be incorrect.

Let's start with 61.315 which talks about "the privileges and limits of my sport pilot certificate" that further says, "(c) You may not act as pilot in command of a light-sport aircraft:" then "(5) At night." So that establishes that a Sport Pilot cannot fly at night, regardless of the ability of the aircraft. Am I confused here?

The first pilot rating that is allowed night flying the FAA has is a Private Pilot. A Private Pilot can fly at night only in the category/class/type of what the pilot is authorized for. Now a Private Pilot single engine land with a PPC Sport Pilot endorsement can only exercise Sport Pilot privileges in my PPC. If I add a Private Pilot PPC rating then I can (of course in a properly equipped aircraft).

Unless there is something in the regs that I don't know about, and let me know if I am missing something, but 61.315(c)(5) clearly says a Sport Pilot cannot fly at night.

[mignazito]

Actually after a closer look, you are correct, night flying is only allowed if you have a recreational or higher certificate, a medical certificate AND a category and class rating for the aircraft involved. 61.315 DOES NOT apply to such a situation at all.

In the case of a recreatonal or higher certificate holder with or without a medical certificate the PPC endorsement only partially lifts 61.315 but not in no case C5 which is the night restriction.

This means you have to have a catergory and class rating for PPCs on your private certificate to fly at night as you suggest. BTW this rating might as well be on the moon since there is only one SPE so far that is qualified to grant it.

I had looked into this some time ago and decided I simply did not want to get a medical at my age and gave up the idea of night flying altogether. I have a lot of night time in airplanes and enjoyed it very much. Though I could pass a medical now, I don't like the risk of busting one some day and having to unload my aircraft.

Marty