Wreckage Found in CA Mountains Is Steve Fossett's

[AirSportAdventures]

Fossett's aircraft was found. Remains not found yet. The story began breaking yesterday when hikers found Steve pilot licences and other personal documents a few day eariler. A search was resume in the area and plane wreckage found.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,431605,00.html

[flynlow]

We all know why they didn't find him, right? :D

Wasn't his disappearance intentional. He probably jumped from the plane, threw down his license and some cash to make it look legit and then ran off to a new life, leaving his wife and all of his money behind. The only mistake he made was he didn't draw enough attention to himself when going down, so it took awhile for us to find him.

There are a lot of pilots who commit suicide by plane, but it still amazes me that people were so quick to think he just disappeared on purpose. Even if he was able to escape from the plane wreckage I saw, he didn't make it far. They'll find him in a few days or after this snowstorm passes and his wife can finally have some closure.

RIP Steve

Jack

[AirSportAdventures]

<snip>....it still amazes me that people were so quick to think he just disappeared on purpose.<snip>

The people who speculated in the press that his death was faked, was his friends.

[flynlow]

The problem is just because it was a friend, it doesn't make him right. He was stupid to say this to the press.

Because a friend of his said it, it convinced you. You clearly said that if he flew without a portable ELT or GPS tracking device you didn't think it was an accident. That is the problem I have with a friend running his mouth to the press. Can you imagine a friend of yours saying this while your wife is still hoping you'll come home?

This was a great U.S. aviatior that we should be proud of. Yeah a lot of us think we could have accomplished the same things with his money, but we didn't, he did. He probably had no fear of a crash on a casual flight in a Decathlon. I would have felt completely comfortable sending my children up with him.

Just to make this clear, I'm not bashing you Michael. I'm just frustrated that as a whole a lot of pilots jumped to that conclusion.

Jack

[AirSportAdventures]

The problem is just because it was a friend, it doesn't make him right. He was stupid to say this to the press.

Because a friend of his said it, it convinced you. You clearly said that if he flew without a portable ELT or GPS tracking device you didn't think it was an accident. That is the problem I have with a friend running his mouth to the press. Can you imagine a friend of yours saying this while your wife is still hoping you'll come home?

This was a great U.S. aviatior that we should be proud of. Yeah a lot of us think we could have accomplished the same things with his money, but we didn't, he did. He probably had no fear of a crash on a casual flight in a Decathlon. I would have felt completely comfortable sending my children up with him.

Just to make this clear, I'm not bashing you Michael. I'm just frustrated that as a whole a lot of pilots jumped to that conclusion.

Jack

Jack

You have me confused with someone else. If you carefully read my posts you wouldn't be frustrated with me. Nothing I have read in the press convinced me of anything. I simply reported what was said in the press. C'mom Jack, you really can't tell the difference? I never concluded anything other than Fossett knew the risks of flying over hazardous terrain and he knew how to be located using a variety of tracking devices. These are undisputed facts about his knowledge and his previous use of tracking and location devices on his many trips. I never said that he disappeared on purpose. I said he appearently flew without tracking devices since none were detected. The NTSB will settle the ELT question and if any of devices such as GSP locators were in the wreckage. I did not conclude anything then and still haven't reached a conclusion now. In fact, even though the wreckage was found, many questions still haven't been answered about his disapearence. No matter how great an aviator Steve Fossett was, it doesn't changes the facts or answer outstanding questions. What do you know that we don't?

[flynlow]

I'm frustrated with anyone who even suspected he just walked away from his life when there was no evidence of that. I'm surprised if he was able to walk away from that crash and die somewhere else, maybe he was dragged off by animals... maybe we'll find out someday. I now realize I was aiming at the wrong guy.

You at one time in the post said, "If Steve flew without them, I don't think it was an accident."
I now see that later you clarified and I missed it, you said, "I don't think it was an accident that he did not take one on his last flight.

I agree it wasn't an accident he didn't take them. I still say he might have been at the Hilton's place and not planning on a complicated enough flight he felt he needed that equipment. I think we've all flown without all of our equipment. I've also heard of pilots dying while flying a well trimmed airplane and it flew till it ran out of fuel. In that case, no ELT or GPS would've helped save him, maybe to find him afterwards.

My post here was a mistake. I mistook the first quote to mean you didn't think him disappearing was by accident, then I probably didn't read your later post carefully enough, even when it was written. Sorry...:o

Jack

You have me confused with someone else. If you carefully read my posts you wouldn't be frustrated with me.

[flynlow]

After posting this, I realized they found human remains now:

http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSTRE4907G820081003

Jack

[AirSportAdventures]

I'm frustrated with anyone who even suspected he just walked away from his life when there was no evidence of that. I'm surprised if he was able to walk away from that crash and die somewhere else,

Investigator said early today that the accident was not survivable. I saw a picture of the impact area/wreckage and agree. Late this afternoon, human remains were discovered at the crash site, confirming he did not survive. They are doing DNA tests tomorrow. I'm curious how far Steve's license and other documents were found from the wreckage. It's possble that animals carried it away since a lot of money was found there too. It's going to be interesting to read the NTSB report.

Another question I have; was the crash site within the designated search area? If so, how many times was that grid searched? I have flown hundreds of hours of search and rescue in the Civil Air Patrol. I was a mission pilot and have been on number of high profile searches over the years. I know how difficult it is the find a "needle in a hay stack". If this area was searched, the CAP will likely review the debriefing data from aircrews assigned to that search grid. Sometime additional clues can be gleaned from observations made near the time of the crash.

[flynlow]

I don't think so. It was a lot further south than they expected. I remember it was very windy too and a lot of well-meaning pilots were just flying around and making it dangerous for the actual search teams. They threatened to call of the search several times.

I've heard that a CHP officer and one other witness said they saw him in the area where he was found, but there were so many reports, the searched this area a little, but had to move on to more credible locations.

Jack

Another question I have; was the crash site within the designated search area? If so, how many times was that grid searched?

[AirSportAdventures]

<snip> I don't think so. It was [Fossett's plane] a lot further south than they expected.<snip>

The search area for lost aircraft is usually based on the aircraft's known fuel and endurance. For example, if the endurance is 4 hours with a TAS of 100 knots, then draw a circumference of 400 miles around the departure airport and you have your search area. Other factors go into a selecting the search area, but if nothing else is known about the flight, as in Fossett's case, the area will include anywhere within the aircraft's range. The pilot's flying habits will usually determine where to put search assets first. The Mission Coordinator will prioritize the search and launch aircrews accordingly. The search assignment order is very flexible and new information can change mission assignments and even divert aircraft from one grid to another. I have many interesting experiences in weeklong searches.

I remember on one CAP/USAF mission (circa 1985) we were directed by radar vectors directly over a crash site in the Everglades by ATC. It was a 1/4 scale P51 Mustang. The aircraft was originally discovered by a helicopter pilot who reported it. ATC told him to fly directly above the wreckage and climb until they establish radar contact. This gave ATC the location. As we approached the site, my observers and scanners did not see anything. It took, as best as I can remember, about two or three passes before a scanner spotted it. I put the plane into a steep turn and circled what was a very small canopy bubble showing just above the water. The color of the aircraft and canopy blended into the color of the water and sawgrass. If not for ATC direction, this aircaft might not have been found.

In any case, I did some checking. The area where Fossett's wreckage was found was searched a number of times and obviously the wreckage was not detected. This is very rough terrain and no doubt very challenging to fly a grid.